The Kurdish Leaders Are Going Too Far
Iraq nowdays February 19th, 2008The UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) approved giving the Syrian Kurds residing in the Iraqi Kurdistan region for four years now the "refugee" status, the region's coordinator with the UN said on Sunday.
Are you kidding me?
Iraqis are not allowed to enter Kurdistan unless accompanied by a Kurdish sponsor to take responsibility of this Iraqi person and guarantee that this Iraqi person will not stay too long in the Iraqi land of Kurdistan. And now they are giving asylum to Syrians??
Isn't this a bit over the edge?
I mean who is more entitled to enjoy the safety and prosperity of the Iraqi land of Kurdistan, the syrian kurds or the Iraqis who had to leave their homes and seek safety somewhere else?
And ironically the UNHCR approved that.
"If it happens that an individual or some individuals were repatriated independently, then is nothing wrong with that but if this repatriation took the form of groups, this would not be allowed," stressed Guterres
Its nice of the UNHCR to forbid the Kurdish government from kicking Iraqis out of their land, unless they break the law. And on the other hand, the Kurdish government makes laws to forbid Iraqis from staying in Kurdistan unless they have a job. Or, they can stay for a short amount of time with the exoistence of a kurdish sponsor.
According to this piece of news,
" According to Kurdish estimates, there are about 3,500 Iranian Kurds, 500 Syrian Kurds and 6,000 Turkish Kurds seeking asylum in the autonomous region,www.ekurd.net in addition to about 160,000 displaced persons who fled security unrest in the Iraqi provinces."
And even if these people do not get the legal right of asylum, still they stay in Kurdistan for an indefinite period of time.
One more small observation, the person making the announcement with Guterres is Dr Dindar Zebari, the Kurdistan Regional Government’s (KRG) Coordinator to the United Nations. This person attends all the meetings that the Iraq representative in the UN attends to represent kurdistan. I wounder if each state in the US has its own representative in the UN, or the each emirate in the UAE has its own representative in the UN?
February 19th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
Kurdistan the Model, my friend.
Erbil and Sulaimaniya haven’t had a carbomb in how long? An infidel can walk the streets of these cities and wander about the country-side with less fear that they would if they walked through Central Park, NYC at twilight. Women work as professionals and wear jeans without fear. Kurds brew their famous beer and drink it in public places.
Yet, they DO accept Iraqi Arab refugees after a strict vetting EVEN THOUGH Kurds are convinced that if there is an attack or human bomb in their city it will be done by one of those Arab refugees. That’s balls, and it shows genuine humanity.
I’ll betcha Adhamiyah has an unofficial policy similar to Kurdistan’s. I imagine Kurdistan’s policy will be adopted in towns and villages throughout Iraq in the next couple years.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
CMAR,
You know so little about how the Kurdish officials treat the Arab “refugees” in kurdistan.
Anyway,
I see that you are as much as ignorant and misinformed as I thought you would be in this subject, so I am not going to go into a discussion with you again.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Before coming to the US, Iraqi blogger M.H.Z., an Arab Iraqi from Baghdad, lived in Kurdistan and blogged from there (”A drive on a northern road“).
Most of the people here are so great, they always say that we are dear guests, they always say how sorry they are for Baghdad, and how beautiful it was, and how they wish that we all go back home someday so that they could come visit us in Baghdad.
*
February 19th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
[BlogIraqi] You know so little about how the Kurdish officials treat the Arab “refugees” in kurdistan….I see that you are as much as ignorant and misinformed as I thought you would be in this subject
How are Arabs treated in Baghdad? Are you bragging about that? Some Arab bloggers bitch about people being driven from their neighborhoods because they are Sunni or Shi’a (a horrible sin, I agree). Now here is a question for you: Where do you go when you are KURDISH and are driven from your home in Arab-dominated Iraq? The first instances of systematic sectarian cleansing in Iraq were directed against Kurds in Fallujeh. Kurdistan is the only sure refuge of Kurds in Iraq and they aren’t permitted to move there without a resident qualifying them (just like Arabs).
You haven’t spent a line on this blog regretting that for the last 50 years, Kurds have had a target on their heads by each successive Iraqi government unless they were willing and able to pass as an honorary Arab. You can offer no promise that, given the first opportunity, Iraqi Arabs wouldn’t do it again. In fact, you think the Kurds should just it up rather than be offended at a national flag that declares in every color and symbol that the only “true” Iraqi is an Arab Iraqi. Yet, you think Kurds should throw open the gates and allow the northern provinces to be inundated by Iraqi Arabs and their current problems (as the Kurds look over the Turkish border and see the future that your demands would mean for them).
Kurdistan ain’t perfect, but compared to the rest of Iraq, and Syria, and Iran, and oh every other predominantly Arab nation and territory today, you might as well call it perfect. The answer is to figure out how to duplicate the success of Kurdistan to the rest of Iraq…not spread the misery to the Northwest.
Kurdistan society is everything you want for all of Iraq: peaceful, (generally) liberal, and secular. Stop bitching about the uppity Kurds and look in the mirror.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
by the way, speaking of ignorance, have YOU been to Kurdistan since 2003? Ever?
February 19th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Jeffery,
Going back to what you have quoted from MHZ
“Most of the people here are so great,…”
Did you find me talking about the Kurdish people anywhere around here?
The whole post is about the Kurdish leaders.
I will give you the same piece of advice I gave CMAR in my previous post; get your head out of your ass long enough to read before you write.
CMAR,
So, you think that the syrian, iranian, and turkish refugees are more entitled than Iraqis to live in the Iraqi land of Kurdistan?
I wounder how would you think if LA would accept the residence of Cubans and Afghanis and put some conditions on the American citizens who want to enter or stay there.
Guys you are totally making no sense here so just beat it. There is nothing that can explain this inconsiderate act of the Kurdish officials and all of you are not welcomed with your door-to-door BS delivery services.
And this would only cause hatred between the Arabs and the Kurds in Iraq. Kurdish people are kind and generous, and they are just being used by those political d*ckheads.
February 20th, 2008 at 12:31 am
[BI] So, you think that the syrian, iranian, and turkish refugees are more entitled than Iraqis to live in the Iraqi land of Kurdistan?
I think Kurdish refugees in Syria, Turkey, and Iran (where they face discrimination for not being Arab, Turkish, Persian, or Shi’a) have as much right to seek refuge in Iraqi Kurdistan as Arab Iraqis have a right to seek refuge in Syria, Jordan, and Iran. For some reason you feel justified in holding Iraqi Kurds to a much higher standard than you do of your Arab countrymen who have been making life so difficult that Arab Iraqis want to live in Kurdistan. From 1991 to 2003, no Iraq Arab wanted to live in Kurdistan (unless he was fleeing Saddam). It was cut off entirely from the national power grid (not 1 hour of electricity a day, but ZERO hours). They had a civil war, they had an infestation of tafirs that they lacked the military to root out, and they had endless interferance from Saddam. Now you think the Kurds should form a suicide pact and smile as they allow their territory to be devasted out of a concern for Arab rights and dignity, when Iraqi Arabs have thought little Kurdish dignity for the last 50 years (and if most Arabs felt about the Pan-Arab Iraqi flag as you did, they still don’t). You think they should allow the sole place where Kurdish language and culture is honored to be swamped by Arabs who are contemptuous of it.
[BI] I wounder how would you think if LA would accept the residence of Cubans and Afghanis and put some conditions on the American citizens who want to enter or stay there.
No comparison. A better analogy would be if Indian Reservations accepted refugees and prohibited other Americans from moving there. But guess what? Indian Reservations CAN choose entirely who moves there and they are much more strict than Kurdistan. The big difference is that the rest of Americans have not behaved with such intolerance toward each other that everyone is clamoring for the *right* to be received in a reservation.
[BI] There is nothing that can explain this inconsiderate act of the Kurdish officials and all of you are not welcomed with your door-to-door BS delivery services.
I suggest you get out more and talk to Iraqi Kurds about what they think of the policies of their cruel Kurdish representatives. I can see you are uncomfortable talking to people who disagree with you, but it would be a really healthy thing for you to do in this case (since you’ve written so much lately ranting against the Kurds).
February 20th, 2008 at 12:39 am
[BI] You know so little about how the Kurdish officials treat the Arab “refugees” in kurdistan.
[Jeffrey] quoted MHZ
[BI] Did you find me talking about the Kurdish people anywhere around here?
Actually, Jeffrey was only pointing out that MHZ…who LIVED in Kurdistan…did not regale us with complaints about his treatment there. Is it possible that you are listening to a lot of biased propaganda toward Kurds? Perhaps you should try to go there for a short VISIT? I for one would be very curious to learn what was involved in doing something like that.
February 20th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Baghdad Treasure writes about his visit to Kurdistan here, in the summer of ‘06.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:22 am
CMAR,
FYI, I have been to Kurdistan before the occupation and after it. And before the occupation, I saw the training of the death squads of Ahmed Al-Chalabi (formerly FIF)after they came from Bulgaria. And after the occupation, I was disappointed to see how the Kurdish officials treat Arabs badly and how nice the Kurdish people were.
Anyway,
Since you are Mr-I-Know-It-All (in other words; smart alec), I suggest you stop writing your bullshit around here because I am tired of your bullshit and tired of trying to reason with a non-reasonable person.
Rhus,
If you look into BTs writing close enough, you will find out that he was accompanied by a Kurdish fellow, and thats why things went easy for him.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:34 am
BlogIraqi, yeah, I re-read the whole thing and posted it here because it’s on-topic. It confirms with another voice what you all have said: that the Kurdish people are friendly, but the officials and policies, not so much. Did you see how BT had to use connections to get into Erbil? He said Sulaimaniya was more laid back.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Rhus,
Do you find it fair that syrian, iranian, and turkish kurds are being granted asylum while many other Iraqis are not?
I find it unfair, and I think if there is the space and resources to have one more refugee in Kurdistan, this place should be given to an Iraqi.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Thanks again BlogIraqi. Why do you think that the KRG is so successful? What can or should the other Iraqi provinces do to replicate the KRG’s success?
I would like to thank the Kurdish Iraqis for their contributions to Iraq. Many Kurds are serving the IA and ISOF (Iraqi Special Operations Forces.) Recently, the KRG has offered the Iraqi Army two KRG army divisions (they would become the 16th and 17th Iraqi Army divisions if they are transferred.)
I am sure that most Iraqis are very grateful that the Kurds are serving Iraq so much, and so effectively.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:21 am
anad,
The Kurdistan region had inner fights for about 8 to 10 years after being out of Saddam’s control. Maybe the rest of Iraq will be as peaceful after 8 to 10 years.
Do you think that accepting refugees from syrian, iran, and turkey, and giving such a hard time to Iraqis wanting to take refuge in the Iraqi land of Kurdistan, is serving Iraq so much and so effectively?
February 20th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I don’t know, BlogIraqi.
On the one hand I can see how the Iraqi Kurds would be sympathetic to the plight of Kurds in other countries and would want to help them out, to share their relative prosperity so to speak. The Iraqi Kurds have certainly seen their share of repression in their days. But on the other hand, I’d like to see them reach out to their non-Kurdish Iraqi brothers to help them in their time of need.
Your article said there were only 10k neighboring Kurds being granted amnesty- maybe there’s room for them and a significant number of Iraqis too?
February 20th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Rhus,
[from BT’s post a peshmurga says] “I said Arabs are not allowed, unless they know someone living here. That’s it.”
This is true for non-resident Kurds also. I know because I’ve discussed this with non-Iraqi Kurds visiting Kurdistan. Also, if a resident Kurds vouches for an visitor/immigrant (an Arab or a Kurd or whatever) and that visitor commits a terrorist/insurgent act or is caught supporting terrorists/insurgent (there are takfiri Kurds), that Kurdish resident is treated as an accomplice.
Granted it is easier for a Kurd to find a residentt to vouch for him. But there are two important points.
ONE: It is working. Kurdistan has not been a significant base for terrorists.
TWO: If you look at BlogIraqi’s contemptuous attitude toward Kurds and Kurdish culture (support for the Pan-Arabist Iraqi flag, etc, etc), and remember how those attitudes were the default for all the Arab-dominated Iraqi governments for since the British pulled out, then you can see why the Kurds will not adopt policies that would lead to them being a minority among Arabs in Kurdistan or even to have Arabs as significant power-base there. If I were a Kurd in Iraq, I would feel that way. And from my conversations with them, that’s how the “nice Kurds” in Kurdistan feel too.
BlogIraqi,
If you don’t respond with a lot B.S. that suggests Kurds are the trouble-makers in Iraq (when it is obvious to every Iraqi Arab trying to live there that they are not), then I will eventually go away and you can avoid facing information you don’t like.
You don’t like the sound of the truth
Coming from my mouth.
~The Dixie Chicks
February 20th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
“The Kurdistan region had inner fights for about 8 to 10 years after being out of Saddam’s control. Maybe the rest of Iraq will be as peaceful after 8 to 10 years.” True. Saddam encouraged the fights between the Barzanis and Talabanis, but ultimately the Kurds are responsible for fighting each other. I hope the rest of Iraq settles down and succeeds the way Kurdistan has.
“Do you think that accepting refugees from syrian, iran, and turkey, and giving such a hard time to Iraqis wanting to take refuge in the Iraqi land of Kurdistan, is serving Iraq so much and so effectively”
I like you wish the Kurds accepted more Iraqi refugees. I would note that Ninevah and At Tamin have accepted many refugees from elsewhere in Iraq. Al Anbar has accepted many sunni arabs from Baghdad. Most refugees come from Baghdad and Diyala.
On a different topic, would you agree that most Iraqis are grateful that so many Kurds are serving in the IA (Iraqi Army), ISOF and INP (Iraqi National Police) with such dedication and distinction?
I heard recently from a GI in Mosul that many Sunni Arab residents still viewed the 2nd Iraqi army division (which remains half manned by Kurdish Iraqi army soldiers) with great suspicion, even though the 2nd Iraqi Army Division commanding Brig General Mouttah—a sunni arab—seems to be well received by the locals. {I have heard the BG Mouttah is amazingly charismatic. Mouttah tracked down and killed the head of AQ in Mosul and three of his men. Mouttah only had two body guards by his side when he did this.}
On yet another side note, it is interesting that so many top brass in the Iraqi Army, MoD dislike BG Mouttah so much. They have refused to promote BG Mouttah to Major General, or the appropriate rank for a division commander. However, given Mouttah’s popularity in Ninevah and with the 2nd IAD rank and file, they can’t “reassign” him from his post either.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
CMAR,
All the post I made was about the kurdish leaders. It must be enjoyable for you to keep you head inside your ass while you write the comments here so you don’t read that well.
I said:
“Kurdish people are kind and generous, and they are just being used by those political d*ckheads.”
and
“I was disappointed to see how the Kurdish officials treat Arabs badly and how nice the Kurdish people were.”
and some time ago I wrote
“I do not hate the Kurds. The kurdish people are very kind.”
So stop your dumbass comments about me talking badly about the kurdish people.
Kurdish leaders are not the only trouble-makers in Iraq. There is a long list that include Al-Hakim, Al-Dulaimi, Al-Sadr, Al-Hashimi, Al-Sagheer, and of course Al-Qaeda and their supporters are on the top………etc.
When exactly are you going to stop BSing here?
I have asked you more than once (and sometimes even impolitely) not to write here again. Please leave, you and your gang and the dixie chicks.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
anand,
“On a different topic, would you agree that most Iraqis are grateful that so many Kurds are serving in the IA (Iraqi Army), ISOF and INP (Iraqi National Police) with such dedication and distinction?”
I think there is some tension that goes on when the peshmarga get into the Arab-inhabited areas. I saw that few months ago when I was in Baghdad. I went more than once to Al-Yarmouk neighborhood in west Baghdad that had great turbulences about a year ago between Mehdi Militias and the Islamic Army mostly and Al-Qaeda too. The US army had fierce fights in there until the area got relatively secure, and the delivered large parts of it to the peshmarga.
I noticed more than once that people are not very comfortable dealing with the peshmarga. Especially this area is mostly inhabited by old former Army generals and officers and most of them were retired even before Saddam came.
I remember also that some of the peshmarga shot-down Iraqi helicopters more than once during the Iraqi-Iranian war back in the eighties.
I think Arabs don’t feel comfortable with the peshmarga because most Arabs doubt the loyalty of them as you said. I did not feel such thing myself when I was there. I doubt the loyalty of the Mehdi-Militia-packed MoI forces much much more.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
[BlogIraqi] “Kurdish people are kind and generous, and they are just being used by those political d*ckheads.”
And what I keep trying (I’ll try on last time) to make clear is that THOSE KIND, GENEROUS KURDS AGREE 100% WITH THESE PARTICULAR POLICIES OF THEIR REPRESENTATIVES. They’re not being “used”. Also, I’ve detailed quite explicitly why they INSIST those policies exist. You seem to think that Kurdish opposition to Iraqi Pan-Arabism was invented in a backroom of the KDP.
I don’t think you hate Kurds. Show me where I’ve said that. I think, based on your posts, that you are merely unused to seeing them insist on be received in Iraq as Kurdish rather than as honorary Arabs.
I don’t know if your comparison of Kurdistan to California suggests more ignorance of the US or of Iraqi Kurds. Kurdistan is more like Quebec, only much much more so.
You seem to like having the last word and being seen as impervious to Reason. Okay. Fine. I’m gone. Enjoy your soapbox. But I suggest you get to know a Kurd or two and run your insightful comments by them about how and in exactly what ways they are being manipulated by their “political d*ckhead” leaders. I’d like to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
February 20th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
[CMAR]:Okay. Fine. I’m gone.
Halaloya.
I suggest you get to know a Kurd or two and run your insightful comments by them about how and in exactly what ways they are being manipulated by their “political d*ckhead” leaders.
I have many friends who are Kurds and they are my source when I say that they are kind and generous. And they are also my source when I say that the Kurdish people are not so happy with their leadership.
I’d like to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
Since you’re leaving, I will not comment on this one.
February 21st, 2008 at 9:25 pm
I mean who is more entitled to enjoy the safety and prosperity of the Iraqi land of Kurdistan, the syrian kurds or the Iraqis who had to leave their homes and seek safety somewhere else?
You actually have to ask this question? I don’t know what to say to that, man. Saddam tried to exterminate the Kurds, with much assistance from Iraqi Arabs. Do you seriously expect them to open up Iraqi Kurdistan to Iraqi Arabs?
What is it you have against Kurds? You keep saying how nice they are, but at the same time you insult them all the time, and you deny that Iraqi Arabs ever victimized them, even when the whole damn world saw it live on CNN.
February 21st, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Criag:What is it you have against Kurds? You keep saying how nice they are, but at the same time you insult them all the time, and you deny that Iraqi Arabs ever victimized them, even when the whole damn world saw it live on CNN.
Are you serious?
When did I insult the Kurds?
Pointing the bad doings of the Kurdish leaders does not insult the Kurdish people.
I never never felt insulted when people spoke bad about Saddam when he was the “president”. And now I don’t feel insulted when someone points out the bad doings of the current Iraqi government. And I don’t think you would be insulted if someone tells you that Bush did something wrong.
With that said, I have never insulted the Kurdish people and I believe they are Iraqis as much as the Arabs. And I would never undermine the truth that they were victims of long time of suppression and genocide.
I don’t know why you guys tend to analyze what I write as hatred towards the Kurds. Its not like that at all.
And if the Kurds are not welcoming the Arabs because of what Saddam did, I believe this action (not welcoming the Arabs) will only increase the gap between the Kurds and Arabs, and it will not be in the best interest of both, because by the end of the day, Kurds and Arabs are Iraqis.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:23 am
BlogIraqi, I’m not going to go through all the blog posts you’ve made and all the comments you’ve left on other blogs to gather “evidence” against you. You talk about the Kurds a lot, and most of what you say isn’t very nice. If you don’t see that, there is nothing I can say that will influence you.
And if the Kurds are not welcoming the Arabs because of what Saddam did, I believe this action (not welcoming the Arabs) will only increase the gap between the Kurds and Arabs
I suspect that exactly what the Kurds want. Complete separation from Arabs. Particularly in these times, when there is so much terrorism and sectarian violence in Arab areas. They don’t want that in their areas, and this is perfectly understandable.
and it will not be in the best interest of both, because by the end of the day, Kurds and Arabs are Iraqis.
Maybe when things are peaceful in Iraq, it will be “the end of the day” and Kurds and Arabs can just be “Iraqi”. I for one hope so
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:18 am
BlogIraqi:
Let me ask you this, if the tables were turned and the Arab portions of Iraq were relatively peaceful, but the Kurdish portion were in the midst of an extremely violent insurgency, would you want a free flow of Kurdish refugges entering your neighborhood? Most people of a generous spirit would say yes to this scenario so I ssupect that you would not be opoosed to hosting large numbers of Kurds in your neighborhood if this were the case.
But, what if I were to change one key factor in the hypothetical, that is, one of the most dangerous Kurdish militant groups believes that all Arab Iraqis were their enemies and were continually attempting to pass into Arab Iraqi lands to inflict mass terrorist bombings on them? Under those circumstances, I doubt very much you would agree to welcome streams of Kurdish refugees to your neighborhood without insisting on very strict security screening.
Given that the Kurds have strong reasons to suspect that AQI would have significantly more success in their attempts to launch mass casuality suicide bomb attacks in Kurdistan if they relaxed their strict security screening of Arab Iraqis, I find it very hard to blame them being unwilling to force their own population to face that significant additional risk. I suspect that Kurdish Iraqis have made the calcualtion that they have little to fear from Syrian or Iranian Kurdish refugges. However, if those refugees are caught engaging in or supporting any type of terrorist activities in Kurdistan, I suspect the door would be slammed shut on them immediately.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:49 am
BlogIraqi:
On more thing, while I don’t necessary blame the Kurds for declining to take additional security risks, I certainly agree that it is politically foolish to even appear to favor Kurdish foreigner refugees over Iraqi Arab refugees. As it seems they have at least taken steps that could lead to this conclusion, I can only conclude that the Kurds are either politically tone deaf to Iraqi Arab sensibilities or they just don’t care about those sensibilities. Either way it is a shame.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Craig:BlogIraqi, I’m not going to go through all the blog posts you’ve made and all the comments you’ve left on other blogs to gather “evidence” against you. You talk about the Kurds a lot, and most of what you say isn’t very nice. If you don’t see that, there is nothing I can say that will influence you.
Craig you make it look really bad. If I have said something that would offend any ethnic group, sect, or religion I would really like you to point it out for me so I can apologize for it. All my “bad” words are directed towards the politicians leading those people, whether they were Kurds, Sunnis, Shiite, or what ever group they consider themselves representing. I have never meant to insult or offend the people. I like to point out the mistakes done by the politicians and the people running this country. And I do this not because I support Saddam and/or Al-Qaeda, or any other type of terrorism, I do that because I am an Iraqi and I support only the Iraqi people.
Mark,
BlogIraqi, I’m not going to go through all the blog posts you’ve made and all the comments you’ve left on other blogs to gather “evidence” against you. You talk about the Kurds a lot, and most of what you say isn’t very nice. If you don’t see that, there is nothing I can say that will influence you.
This is exactly what I have been saying. I am not declining the Kurdish right to protect themselves from any danger, such as Al-Qaeda or Saddamists or any other violence-supporting group. It is just if you can support one more refugee in Kurdistan, and given the circumstances in the rest of Iraq, shouldn’t this single refugee be Iraqi?
That is all what I am saying.
February 24th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Don’t waste your time, he accuses everyone of being racist at least twice a week. Anyone with half their mental faculties can tell exactly what you meant.